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John:
There is a wisdom here that far exceeds the subset of you which is called consciousness or first attention. There are certain disciplines and practices the conscious mind, first attention, needs to master to keep up its part of the relationship with second attention. Erickson used to liken a conscious-unconscious relationship to a rider and horse. The rider could choose a place that he or she wished to go. In proposing it to the horse there was an understanding that unless the horse agreed, they weren't going to go there together. (laughter)



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John Grinder
Judith Delozier
Grinder, Delozier & Associates
1995-09-01




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George:
I'd like a reference experience for having this peripheral only vision.

 

John:
Take your finger and put it out here and look at me. Now, how many fingers doyou see? Two, right? The space in between those two fingers doesn't existexcept as an artifact of your neurology, right? You can demonstrate that by looking at your finger. How many of me do you see?

 

George:
Two.

 

John:
Now, if you were to take an object which you wish to fix your attention on andlook past it so that it becomes blurred¡½just as I'm looking past my finger andseeing you resolved but my finger is now indefinite, it's not as resolved¡½you would begin a process of learning how to look at someone and give up foveal vision, especially if you paid attention to the kinesthetics of your eyes.

 

George:
I have a reference experience for something like what Deborah calls"full-view" vision where I can literally see out to the end. But nothing in the middle disappears unless I close my eyes.

 

John:
So, I'm saying, stare at a blank spot to occupy your foveal vision and attendto the activity in your peripheral vision; that will accomplish the same thing.If you give your foveal vision nothing of interest, it doesn't change; it fatigues itself. Those are some of the ways of achieving that particular partof the visual experience.

 

Judy:
Think about the little eyeball moving twenty times a second. 'Cause if it did stop,it would fatigue.

 

George:
Yeah, but it doesn't.

 

Judy:
Yeah, so it keeps moving.

 

John:
Infact they took a small miniaturized projector and mounted it on a contactlens.

 

Judy:
Itwas a little teeny¡Ä (laughter)


John:
The pictures looked big though. But they only lasted a few seconds because the contact lens was sensitive to that twenty times a second movementof the eye¡½your eye cannot see from a single perceptual position, it's constantly moving. We're unaware of it just as we're unaware of the blind spot. But in this case since the contact was sensitive to those eye movements theprojector mounted on it remained in the same relationship to the retinalreceptors even though the eye continued its movement. The pattern of lightentering the eye was therefore falling continuously on the same receptors¡Ä after several seconds the person's perception of the image disappeared completely... nerves recovered, disappeared, reoccurred, disappeared...



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Judith Delozier
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1995-09-01




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John:
We're proposing that from now on, when you act in the world you use this next exercise as your prototype
¡Ýto arrange for Viola Legere type contextual markers and a lifeline. Then you" stop the world." Now notice that what happend when you "stop the world" is in part a function of the methodology you use for "stopping the world." If you're using a deep, deep trance, and go in and make those requests of your second attention and get a confirmation and then come out of the trance into the altered state of having"stopped the world" you'll have one class of experiences. It will be profoundly different, typically, than what happens when you "stop the world" by finding an access point to a highly focused state where historically you did "stop the world" and you now retrieve the physiology and the experience of that state from your personal history. There will tend to be some substance, some content from the original environment, the context where you" stopped the world" before that will intrude. There will be differences using those approaches.

Judy:
In Castaneda's descriptions of "stopping the worlď" he talks about children..., he uses the concept of "seeing,¡É when you stop internal dialogand you stop foveal vision and you¡Çre seeing with just peripheral vision, the world looks amazingly different. He talks about the range of human possibilities being out there and culture resonating with a few of those possibilities¡½the emanations on the outside and the inside matching. And it's so liquid that in order to stabilize it children are taught language. They'reconstantly reinforced with language as a way of stabilizing and fixing that point. He talks about children being "seers," and then the parents start making descriptions of the world and telling them who they are
¡Ýthey learnlanguage and then the world stabilizes. It's another description.



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Turtles All the Way Down: Prerequisites to Personal Genius
John Grinder
Judith Delozier
Grinder, Delozier & Associates
1995-09-01




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Deborah:
You said¡Ä, one of the things you said I have translated carefully but I'm not sure itquite fits and that's this description of what I call "full-view,F-U-L-L-dash-V-I-E-W," (laughter) vision and ah...

Judy: 
Foveal. (writing on board) But I like that¡Ý"full-view" However, like most first-attention translations, it's totally misleading. (laughter) So the fovea and the periphery of the eye give rise to different classes of visual experience. Extend your two fingers up at about arm's length. Now close your left eye. Now focus on your left finger with your right eye and slowly, without shifting your gaze, so that your right eye is looking at your left finger, move your right finger away. After about four inches of separation the top of it should disappear. If you don't notice that, go past that spot and then come back. No-no, much too far. About this far is where you're going to find that.

Woman:
I'm watching my left finger.

John:
You're watching your left finger...

Judy:
...with your right eye...

John:
...with your right eye only, one eye. And as you move across there's a place where the top of your right finger disappears. And it appears again. Isn't that amazing?

Judy:
Where did it go?

John:
The part about it appearing again is what I'm really thankful for.(laughter)

Judy:
Yipes!

John:
Now what you'rediscovering by a simple little demonstration is something that is part of yourheritage as a human being. It's called your blind spot. Obviously where the tracks from the retina leave the retina is a blind spot. Notice that we fill this with an automaticity that can only be teased out by a careful examination of our experience using monocular, as opposed to binocular vision.

Judy:
So there, new information is right at the end of your finger.

John:
And so is the blind spot. Depending on which way you're moving. So foveal vision employs theclass of receptors that are centralized in the eye, usually called cones. Rods,which constitute the major anatomical structure in the periphery of the eye,are the major element in your way of witnessing the world through peripheralvision.


Judy:
As John mentioned earlier, if you focus on the blackboard here, where in theroom do you notice movement? It will be in your peripheral vision. 

John:
And if you think that's where it actually is, look across the room and you'll notice suddenly it shifts. There are many examples available in the inspection of everyday experience about the class of transforms that occur between the interface of the world and us called our sense organs and what we ultimately come to appreciate as our world as constructed by those transformsin representational systems in consciousness.

Judy: As it filters down literally. 


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Turtles All the Way Down: Prerequisites to Personal Genius
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Judith Delozier
Grinder, Delozier & Associates
1995-09-01




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Woman:
When you talked about establishing a lifeline, do you want us to be able to do that ourselves?

John:
¡Ä Yes, with instructions from us and a cybernetic first/second-attention feedback loop of proposal, request, proposal, request to come to an assurance, before you make the step into "stopping the world," that you have asecure lifeline, that, in the worst case, can be tugged gently and bring youback nicely. That's the purpose of your pairing with some witness during these experiments and perhaps setting up an agreed upon signal that will let them know to bring you out.


Maureen:
I think I have that already, however it's very quick to panic and pull me back.


John:
Right. So the panic response is afunction within you that says, "Aha! You could get lost here
." You used to drive race cars? When you were driving racecars you made that complete demon commitment. You had to to be good. In that context your consciousness let go and allowed you to extend your definition of self to the tires. The basis of any aesthetic act is skill. And it's our responsibility to ensure that the proper tools are available to you so that as you do these exercises the panic function can go, "I'm sitting here ready to press the button to pull you out but I have criteria that we've agreed upon that says when¡Ýunder what specific conditions¡ÝI should pop you." That'll give you the freedom of going into the state and exploring it without being yanked back immediately. That is an important positive function within you and I would never interfere with it. I would like to educate it as to what the specific contextual conditions are for it to hit the button.


Maureen:
The most important experience that I went through¡Ýthat I now feel was necessary for me to go through in order to extend my skills as a racing driver
¡Ýwas to lose control of the car. And when I was going through my instruction process it wasn't until I lost control of the car that the instructor walked away from me and said, ¡ÈYou¡Çre fine." And I looked at him and said, "You're crazy!"


John:
¡Ä but he wasright.

Maureen:
After that experience it was so obvious to me.


Judy:
There's a concept called "controlled folly" in Castaneda's work. You cannot make a full commitment unless you know what the worst case consequence is and are willing to accept that. Your ability to go out of control with the car and survive it was the last piece that you needed to know so that you could make a full, passionate, 100% commitment to that activity. You had done everything, that is, you achieved excellence in that form. That's a kind of personal genius and it's a really good example of extension of self too.

John:
There arecertain parts of me that say extension of self should include food at this point. An hour and a half, please be prompt, and bring back loose clothing to give you freedom of movement so that you can participate in the activities that will begin at three-thirty this afternoon.


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Turtles All the Way Down: Prerequisites to Personal Genius
John Grinder
Judith Delozier
Grinder, Delozier & Associates
1995-09-01




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Woman:
When you say foveal vision, is that like phobia?

John:
Possibly¡Ä Lookover at that circle on the wall. So you can see my hand moving easily. The periphery of your eye is built to detect movement. The foveal vision is builtto detect color. You see grays in your peripheral vision largely. So they are really two systems; in fact, there are pathologies of the eye where you lose either foveal or peripheral vision differentially showing that there are different tracks. Another way to do it is under certain kinds of nicely altered states you get tunnel vision, that is, all you have is foveal vision disappears.

Judy:
Don Juan says that after "stopping the world" the next step is "seeing" which hedefines as "responding to the perceptual solicitations of a world outside the description we have learned to call reality. 


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Judith Delozier
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1995-09-01




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John:
There are many ways to achieve the kind of focused state you "stop the world" in Castaneda's terms¡Ýno internal dialogue, no foveal vision. You could do it through a piece of trance work if you are capable and have been trained in the technology of the second attention called the Ericksonian Model. You may use a device such as reframing¡Ä

Judy:
¡Äto set up a¡Ä

John:
¡Ärelationship between first and second attention and propose from first attention that you have this class of experiences and confirm the acceptance of that proposal with an involuntary second-attention signal.

Judy:
Or you can remember some time when you actually were so focused that you did not have internal dialogue¡Ä

John:
¡Äand then reaccess¡Ä

Judy:
¡Äthat stateand anchor it¡Ä

John:
¡Äfully. Letthose possibilities, along with a dozen other possibilities that I hope also occur to you about how you might accomplish the task, let them sit over lunch. Understand that we will ask you not to do this exercise until you have made the appropriate lifeline contextual-marker arrangements so that you may do it with complete safety. Safety in the sense that you'll come back. I have no guarantees as to what you'll meet when you go to second attention. That's the importance of you going yourself. It's also the importance of you having a witness who will accompany you as a fallback¡Ýto pull that lifeline back just as Viola Legere insists on curtains, scripts, and directors.


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Judith Delozier
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1995-09-01




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John:

What are expectations? Who here has the background to tell us what the connections between afferent and efferent nerves are? If my hand or my foot touches something hot outside of my visual field I will withdraw that limb before the signal reaches my central nervous system. That loop will occur at the spinal cord. And that makes a great deal of sense in terms of preventing injury to the organism. But when we take our preconceptions and push them, by the same mechanisms of use and disuse, atrophy and patterns of muscle tension, out to the peripheral organs we becomea self-validating, impermeable system which can't learn because we're destroying difference at the periphery. Changing foveal to peripheral vision and changing internal dialog to silence, become extremely important as ways of establishing access to second attention in a way that willallow us to do the kinds of design aesthetically, that we wish to do in this workshop.

 

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John:
Bateson says that the tree that I see with my eyes closed is more truly mine than the tree that Isee with my eyes open. Since there's no external pattern impinging on that occipital lobe event called "seeing the tree" it's easier for me to change the tree if I have nothing out there to coordinate.

The delight and the danger in human neurology is to push your perceptual filters so far out in the periphery that you don't know what you're deleting. It's taking the cognitive strategy that Allen and Britt offered, which is "commonsense" in our culture, and pushing it out to the periphery so that difference is destroyed before it ever achieves any status in our central nervous system. Our neurology already does that to a degree that's unbelievable. The fact that there are 160,000,000 cones and receptors in the retina and magnitudes fewer tracks in the optic nerve tells you that what we're seeing is not what¡Çs there. It's some interesting transform of the light pattern reflected from that object on the retina.

 

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STOPPINGTHE WORLD WITH LIFELINES


John:
The two tasks that I wish to accomplish before I put you in the most artistic, capable hands of TaTitos Sompa this afternoon at three-thirty are the task of "stopping the world" and the task of arranging and using lifelines. They go together into a single unified exercise.

Judy:
You all know"stopping the world" from¡Ä

John:
¡ÄCastaneda
Turning off internal dialogue¡Ä
There are two minimum requirements to achieving the "stopping the world" state. Remember the discussion about understanding and how you understand by relating experience to what you already know? That's one way you sustain your world. If every new input is recoded¡Ýespecially before reaching the central nervous system and consciousness¡Ýinto something you already know, there's no disturbance of the homeostatic levels on the one hand and on the other hand, you don't learn anything new. So ongoing verbal description of the world is one way that you sustain the world that you already know, categorize it, and recode it. The second thing isfoveal vision. You know, there are 160,000,000 cones and rods in the retina.There are magnitudes less tracks in the optic nerve. And as you move back inthe optic nerve to the optic chiasma and then further back, at each level, at each synapse, there's a reductionistic mechanism being employed. Transform, transform, transform, transform¡Ä

John:
You do not see me; you see events on your occipital lobe.

Judy:
I hate that. (laughter)


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2006-06-20



Turtles All the Way Down: Prerequisites to Personal Genius
John Grinder
Judith Delozier
Grinder, Delozier & Associates
1995-09-01



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